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my ferals, semi ferals, and grumpy old lady(tuscany)


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#31
mcduck

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Well,  night number 2 back to the ER Vet.  She spent the day at our usual vet - transfered her there at 8 am (this ER vet does nights/we only).  Turns out my usual vet does not have a nebulizer.  Wish I would have realized that before I got her back there.  They spent the day monitoring her.  She seemed ok in am but around noon started with the fast breathing again.  They did another xray(still showing pneumonia like pattern consistant with aspiration mostly) and some blood (all normal).  My vet said she was eating like a piglet all day, they were giving her IV fluids and some antibiotics (Baytril and Amoxil).  Baytril could have some issues with cartiledge growth....  The vet said her mucosa looked pink all day, I think they tried to give her oxygen with a mask.  When it came time to pick her up she was breathing very fast again.  In fact when we got back to the ER Vet (Same vet on as last pm) her O2 saturation was only 68 - very low.  Last pm when I took her it was in the 80's.  I feel like the day was wasted at my vet.  The current plan is obviously she is there for the night (another 500$) and is going to a different vet that does pulmonary treatments for the day tomorrow.  We will see how she does from there.  Yikes!  Alot of $ out for a little feral that I didn't even know - but what does one do - where does it end?  I did ask the ER vet if she thought the kitten was any where near the PTS stage and the answer was definately not yet.  

ANyone have experience with aspiration pneumonias in cats??  Do they recover?  Do they always have breathing issues after?  Any of the little kittens on Baytril have issues later?  

I am so tired with only 4 hours of sleep last pm.  Got to get up early tomorrow and go transfer the kitten.  Later, Joyce

Thanks for all the thoughts, prayers.  Keep them coming.  Nancy, I'll try looking you up tomorrow.

#32
Tracy IMOM

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Joyce,

I'm sending good healing thoughts for Josie. It sounds like she's got some "fight" in her. Hopefully she'll turn the corner soon.

Tracy  stripekitty.gif

#33
Laura IMOM

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I hope Josie is feeling better today.  And I'm sorry about the big bills, I know the feeling since I just footed half the bill to get a colony of about 50 cats s/n and treated for a variety of illness (and there were a lot of sick ones).  But no one else was going to help these cats, so my neighbor and I had no choice.  I wish I could help you with this little girl.

Please give us an update when you can....

Thanks for helping this little one.

#34
mcduck

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OMG,  it has been another long day.  I am having the guilts.  If I hadn't trapped, if I hadn't spayed.........  This kitten, Josie, is still not out of the woods.  I am wrestling with PTS issues vs continued treatment.  It is very costly this daily hospitalization.  Yes, I can luckily afford it BUT - it is a feral, it is only a kitten, I don't have (much) emotional attachment to it, the money I've already spent, nearly 2000 gulp could have helped so many others.  Where does the line get drawn??  When it is your own special animal, you heart it is easy to spend it if you have it.  

Today I transfered her from the ER vet where she spent the night to the "pulmonary spa".  A different vet in town where they do have nebulizers.  I guess yesterday when she got to the ER vet her O2 sat was only about 68%.  This was after a day at the vet who did the spay, not on O2 or having any treatments.  They had her O2 saturation up to about 89% when she left the ER vet this am.

At the vet today, she spent most of the day in an O2 container.  Had 3 nebulizer treatments and coupage.  Her O2 saturations were only around high 70's to 82 all day.  She didn't eat  much or drink, or pee or poop for them.  They did not give her fluids (sub q or thru the cath that she stilll has in her front left leg) go figure.

So despite the low sats they told me to take her home and watch her tonight.  If she gets worse take her to the ER vet again.  Regardless to bring her back tomorrow for more treatments.  I am still to give her clavamox and baytril tonight.  

I did feed her some tuna, snarfed it down.  She looks better than what she did.  How long do I do this for a homeless kitten?????  How much is this worth????  

Ok,  yes, I COULD keep her.  I was not in my plans at all.  I am happy with my feral colony and the attentions of Mama and Wee  (Libbey showed tonight and came right up to me).  If I was to do another full time inside cat I'd like to have a pet not a feral.  Does that make sense??  See, we travel with our inside cats upnorth and sailing.  We travel and leave the cats with a sitter.  When they are pets, at least the sitter can interact and know that the cats are ok.  With the ferals/semi ferals like Mama, she won't even come inside if someone else is here.

Ok, now I have the babbles (francine often calls it that).  I am agonizing over this poor kitten.

Nancy,  I got your number, haven't called yet cause I'm not sure what the disposition of this kitten will be.  If she survives I may still need to call you for at least fostering so her meds get in her etc.  I hope tomorrow gives me more clarity on what to do.

Thanks everyone for you thoughts and prayers.  Joyce

#35
Nancy

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Joyce;

How old is Josie?  After all this she may indeed become an indoor pet...some of the best cats I've adopted at the rescue started as outdoor cats!  Hmmm...I'm having visions of Josie lounging on a sailboat upnorth wink.gif

Sent you a PM that I could foster Josie while you are gone.  I'll check with my vet to see what he has in the line of treatment options in case she needed something while here....then I'll wait to hear from you later today...call me either way, OK?

Nancy

P.S.  There may be more than one IMOM meeting this weekend!  Cindy and her five and Joyce and I!

#36
Kim

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QUOTE(mcduck @ Nov 8 2006, 10:20 PM) View Post

How long do I do this for a homeless kitten?????  How much is this worth????
  Joyce, for what it's worth, I look at the animal's chance of survival (and good quality of life) if treatment is continued -- I don't decide based on whether it's "just a feral."  You're right that once you get into big bucks there's always that dilemma:  do I put my all into saving this ONE or do I use the money to help MANY?  But sweetie, I think you're already past that point with Josie.   heart.gif  Thanks for having the big heart that you do.  She's a young cat and I hope she makes it.  Wouldn't surprise me at all if you two bond during her recovery and she becomes the next McDuck.  wink.gif

re:  Baytril -- The general rule is you don't use it in kittens because it can harm their growth plates.  But if the kitten might die otherwise, I think you say to hell with the growth plates!

Edited by Kim, 09 November 2006 - 09:42 AM.


#37
mcduck

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Update on Josie,  She made it thru the night, very well.  Ate great,  came out of the carrier and spent alot of time on top of carrier (this is all in a large dog crate), and has figured out the litter box routine.  I didn't see any rapid breathing.  I did check on her in the middle of the night.  She loves being pet, purrs alot but not so sure on the holding - I didn't want to stress her so I didn't push it.

She is back at the vet's today.  He is going to try 2 pulmonary treatments today and hopefully keep her off the oxygen.  The vets are surprised that she doesn't feel that distresses or that her gums/tongue stay so pink with such low O2 sats.  Of course she isn't moving around much so if she had the ability to run who knows how that would affect her.  Regarding any possible other congenital problems causeing this low O2 - per one vet unlikely that she would have survived as well in the wild or survived anesthesia.

If she does well today and tonight I am supposed to take her back to the vets again tomorrow just for 1 nebulizer treatment while I wait.

Nancy,  I'm going to sign off and make a call around her for someone to take the cat for the week,  if that is a no go I'll be calling you (will call either way).  I don't see a PM - but now sure if I can get them (did see an email, though and think Kim sent me a PM so I must be able to get them - it's the computer illiterate thing again)

Will try updating later.  Have had the PTS discussion with all 3 vets now.  THe one today said he was very glad she had done so well overnight otherwise he would have been encouraging that.  Keeping my fingers crossed.

Joyce


#38
mcduck

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More updates:  Josie spent all day at vets.  They nebulized her twice - no Oxygen today.  Her O2 sats were low in the am (68) but did rise to high 80's the last one she had.  Supposedly ate well.

Since coming home I've gotten her settled back up in the closet BUT she doesn't want to eat or come out of the carrier.  In fact when I pet her she purrs but also looks like she is breathing out thru her mouth, something that the vets keep saying is not a good sign.  Ugh,  I want her to get better.

I did have a very nice chat with Nancy tonight.  She has offered some good suggestions.  I also found a vet that boards right by my house with very reasonable prices that I could keep her at while I am away.  I've just got to get her better enough!

Still keep this little kitten in your thoughts/prayers etc.

OH - Confirmation tonight - there is ANOTHER kitten.  Probably this ones litter mate even though I never saw them together.  This one is the bolter.  If it sees you or movement it is gone.  Guess I'll have to trap another when the trauma of this one wears off.  Joyce

#39
Laura IMOM

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Oh I hope little Josie turns arounds tonight.  It's really rough having a sick kitten, it sounds like you are already getting attached Joyce, funny how they creep in and steal your heart. heart.gif

#40
Tracy IMOM

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Joyce,

I'm keeping Josie in my thoughts and prayers. I'm hoping she improves and starts feeling better soon.

Tracy  stripekitty.gif

#41
Kim

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Joyce, we're rooting for little Josie too.

How's she doing this morning?

Edited by Kim, 10 November 2006 - 10:06 AM.


#42
Nancy

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Checking in on Josie too.  I talked with Joyce last night and it sounds like Josie maybe staying at a vets office while she is gone, or at a friends.  I'm back-up plan in case those don't work out!  My vet is gone this weekend, so I'm hoping Joyce works one of the other things out...I'd worry about Josie here with the only place for me to get her treatment being an emergency vet 1/2 hour away!

Kim, Joyce and I talked about the fact that she's becoming attached to Josie.  She was hoping that another cat in her life would be one she picked out and not a tabby.  I told her cats pick you not the other way around, LOL!  I told her we see the "writing on the wall" as to where Josie belongs and she will eventually see it too smile.gif

If for some reason that's not the case...I have pretty good luck placing special needs kitties (if for some reason Josie ends up with long term problems) and I'm willing to take her at my rescue.

For now, I'm praying for quick healing for Josie, so Joyce doesn't have to worry about it the whole time she is gone!

Nancy

#43
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I talked to Joyce earlier tonight.  Her friend is keeping Josie for the week and Josie is doing better!  Josie even played a bit tonight, which requires more oxygen, so things must be improving some!

Joyce will be gone a week, so unless her friend calls me because of a problem, we'll have to wait until next weekend for an update!  Keep Josie in your thoughts and prayers, so the update we get is she's all healthy and happy!

Nancy

#44
mcduck

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Josie update:  So got transfered to my friend Kim's this am.  She has made it out of my closet to their bathroom.  The girl gets around!  At least in the bathroom she will get two "steam" treatments a day.  I also showed my friend Kim how to do a little coupage on her chest to help loosen phlegm.  Josie is still coughing a little and sneezing.  She doesn't have anything running out of nose or eyes.  She is still eating like crazy,  doesn't like to play with her new toys (no banana) but does like a shoe string.  She looks a lot more alert and is starting to tolerate being held.  She did see their dog thru the crate - little thing has a hiss on her :>

Hope she does well this week while we are gone.  Hope she hits the litter box with the poop a little better than what she is doing.  It is a bit loose probably from antibiotics and she is messy with it.  She needs to start cleaning the back end better!

OK,, really,  got to go pack.  I haven't even started - I hate packing.  We do have to leave in a few hours and I have a woman coming over at 11 to pick up my traps.  She has a few strays/ferals that she is going to try to TNR.  Joyce

Thanks for everyones help and thoughts

#45
LaurieR

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So glad to hear that Josie appears to be on an upward trend. That's great news. I know we'll all be anxiously awaiting an update when Joyce is back. Hopefully Josie will be completely out of the woods by that time.

#46
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JOSIE UPDATE:  Josie was at my girlfiends while I was gone 11th-19th.  She appartently did fine.  My friend and her daughter spent a fair amount of time with her in that bathroom.  Josie seems to be fairly social.  She comes up to you,  purrs like crazy, head butts and does tolerate some holding.  She still doesn't play much (guess if I gave her a live mouse she might:>).  

I brought her home yesterday - back to my closet.  She wasn't locked into the cage this time and seems to be doing ok.  I still think that she isn't quite right.  I think I might be inheriting that CCL neurosis.  It seems like she works harder than the other cats at purring - like her whole abdomin, diaphragm area seems to be contracting.  She isn't coughing but still has some sneezing going on.  At this point in time she is done with the Baytril and still on the Clavamox.  

Josie is using the litter box but with defecation she has some issues of cleaning herself after.  She didn't like the backend wash I gave her yesterday.  Today's was better.  Perhaps some of the issue has been loose stool with the meds....

Tomorrow at 10 I take her back to the vet.  I'll see what she has to say.  I think they will be rexraying her.  Hope things look clear.  

I still need to talk with Nancy.  I still would like to see if I can get this girl adopted.  This is of course assuming her health is ok.  I just am not convinced yet that I want another inside cat.  (It is close to the 2 year anniversary of Merlot's bridge day and that may be part of the issue - not quite ready....)

OK,  more later.  I hope Josie survives the day.  Her horizons were expanded to closet (this is a large room), the dressing area and the large bathroom (thought she could use a window and some light).  I am hoping when we get home later she will come up to us and not make us hunt for her thru the closet.  Joyce

#47
Baila

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Oh Joyce, I've been following Josie and am so glad she seems so improved. She also sounds like she really is taming - and maybe even trying pretty hard to adopt you. Maybe she needs a little toy sailboat to play with. smile.gif

Joyce, really I just want to thank you for taking care of her. I know it has been tough on many levels.

Please give Josie some purr evoking petting from us!

heart.gif

Martha Jane and Baila

#48
mcduck

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OK my cat friends, please help me tame my neurosis.  When 4 month old kittens purr do you see their abdomens move in and out (like a asthmatic kid who needs to use his abdominal muscles to breath)?  When your kittens are purring does the skin under the chin get sucked in and out?  Can this be almost but not quite a sucking motion??  Josie moves her abdomen alot when purring - makes me think she is still having a hard time breathing.  With the movement under the chin - she doesn't open her mouth.  I am probably studying her too much.  Wish she would play a little more - but I think I am expecting too much from a feral kitten  (or else it is because she doesn't have a banana like little orange whozit).    Will hopefully get some answers at the vet today.  Joyce

#49
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SIGH.  See above post.  Guess I wasn't so neurotic.  Per the vet visit today - Josie's chest Xray shows a worsening condition.  Still has noises in lungs (but decreasing) and upper airway congestion.  So now we have her on Clindamycin and a strong deworming med (liquid, 5 days, don't remember the name - but it isn't drontal).   The deworming cause of the remote possibility of visceral larval migrans.  We also had the toxo discussion and I asked about Bordetella (which the Clavamox should have hit) The vet also discussed taking Josie to a lung specialist and having a bronchial washing done.   We are going to try the new meds and see how she does.  If things don't look like they are improving I'll consider the specialist.  Kind of hard when these things come up over holidays/weekends.  

Well, got to go to dentist as I have been unable to close my mouth for a month.  I thought it was a TMJ issue and it got worse over the weekend.  Made the call monday am and of course now it is feeling much better.  Still going for my xrays and to make sure it isn't an abscess or some wisdom tooth issue.  Joyce

#50
Kim

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Joyce, sounds like a good idea to try the clindamycin in case this is toxo, and to deworm again.  Was there any discussion about lungworms?  I had a foster cat who presented with what looked to be a bad URI that became pneumonia.  Turns out he had toxo and lungworms.  He died at the hospital before we could diagnose the toxo and get him started on clindamycin -- I'm not sure how much the lungworms contributed to his respiratory distress.

Fingers crossed for little Josie.  And you!

ps)  If you have trouble getting liquid clindamycin into her (it tastes AWFUL), it's also available in small tablets:  Clintabs

#51
mcduck

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Hi Kim,  I think the lung worm thing might be the same as the visceral larval migrans - it would be worms that migrate into organs, especially lungs.  The original feeling is that she was on the young side for that but who knows.

With the one dose of meds she didn't fight me too much.  She might start getting wise to them.  I remember when we tried Tuscany on elavil - she was nearly rabid with mouth foaming any time we came near her with the meds in anticipation.  I'll see how Josie does.  Thanks for the hint on the clindatabs.  I sure hope this kitty turns around soon.  She is at least showing a little more interest in her closet.  She even ventured to the edge of the door of the closet/bedroom and looked like she was going to make a break for it. Mama certainly put her in her place......

I am hoping that Josie gets a little older and we can repeat her FeLv.  Who knows, even though she was negative the first time around - she could be positive.  Maybe this is contributing to her illness.

Hopefully all the comings and going this weekend, including 7 extra people here for 4 - 7 days doesn't get her too anxious.  This is the main reason why she is up in my closet vs elsewhere in the house.  I figure it is the one place that most people will stay out of anyways :>

Got to get medicate Josie again and get to bed.  I have a full day of work and will need to come home to a full house of in laws and then figure out what I am cooking.  Ya should have seen me in the store without my list - I just threw everything I might need (except the cranberry) into my cart.  I am not sure which recipe I'll follow - but at least I have almost any ingredient I may need.

Hey, anybody have any thougths on lung specialists in cats???  Anyone ever  have their cat get a bronchial washing??          Joyce



#52
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JOSIE UPDATE:  She might be improving some.  She certainly is moving around more and quicker.  She has started exploring our bedroom (under the bed, where else) and seems to be interested in playing a very little bit.   She still seems to breath too fast almost all the time, but less fast than before.  She is starting to talk to us, including making noises that sound like a dog whining.  She is laying on her side now and giving me her belly to rub.  Still have to "catch" her to pick her up but she seems content when being held.  Still don't know what I'm going to do with her should she continue to improve.  Hope everyone had a good thanksgiving.  I've had all my inlaws here, some since Tuesday.  Nobody is leaving until tomorrow.  We are having Christmas tonight.  Ugh!!!!

Joyce

#53
Tracy IMOM

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Hi Joyce,

I'm glad to hear that Josie is improving. Those all soubnd like positive signs to me. I hope her improvement continues.

Tracy  stripekitty.gif


#54
Nancy

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Joyce;

Merry Christmas, LOL!  Glad Josie is doing better....let me know how it goes...I've had some adoptions and hopefully will have room soon...should you decide to give her up!

Nancy

#55
mcduck

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OK,  6 of the house guests are gone as of yesterday.  Now I only have about 12 hours left to get the monster in law gone.  I know, cruel, but a week is more than enough.  She speaks so loud (cause she won't wear her hearing aids) that all the outside cats are spooked.  I haven't seen Mama in 2 nights now.

Josie:  Still in the closet/bathroom area.  I brought up the spinning/hiding mouse thingamajig and she loves it.  She is playing more and being fiestier about her meds.  I still have to snag her to make her sit in my lap - but them can't get rid of her :>  She likes her belly rubbed.  Oh, she also nibbled on me!   Love those little nibbles.

I spoke to the vet today.  Since she seems to be responding to that awful tasting Clindamycin we are going to continue it.  Guess if she had toxoplasmosis you usually treat for 2 -3 weeks.  Was it the clindamycin or the panacar??  Who knows.  We are going to re xray next tuesday.  

Nancy,  We are still holding back on committing to her.  I still may need to take you up on adoption but obviously need to get her thru this illness first.  I'll keep you posted.

Later,  Joyce



#56
mcduck

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Question for all you feral colony people:  CAN YOU MAKE A FERAL TOO FAT????

My little colony certainly is looking pleasingly plump.  Wee is almost chubby now - and I don't even see her eat too much.  Even Annie has filled in and doesn't look anorexic anymore.  Duke is big,  Libbey looks fluffy.....

Maybe I feed them too much.  I usually put out dry food (Chicken Soup) twice a day (full bowl in am, up to a full one in evening but if it is too dark the 'coons just eat it) and I usually try to give what ever cat shows up  1/2 can (5 oz can) of wet food.    Too much???  Joyce

#57
Kim

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Joyce, I'm glad that little Josie is feeling better.  smile.gif

As for the chubby ferals, I think it's good for them to have a little added "insulation" for the winter.  They also tend to gain weight after they're altered.  The one thing I'd watch for is that none of them gets so big that the cat can't reach its lower back and rear end to groom.  With a housepet you can shave the fur back there and treat any irritation from urine or feces, but with a feral you'd have to retrap and then subject the cat to anesthesia again.  

I just got some wonderful photos from one of my trailer park caretakers and everyone commented on how, um, "well fed" the cats are.    wink.gif

#58
Nancy

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Joyce;

The ferals are also getting their winter coats now.  Mine look plumper than normal, because of that.

The other thing is that maybe someone else is feeding them too!  My ferals get the food I put out and wonderful scraps from a neighbor.  When we move, the ferals are going with me (if they are good boys and let me trap them again), they will miss his scraps!

Nancy

#59
mcduck

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Guess who was found sleeping on our bed??  Josie figured that out tonight.

Guess who I still haven't seen since Sat. pm and it is driving me nuts - Mama is still AWOL.  I wish she would at least do a drive by to let me know she was ok.  Neurosis:  Is she hurt, is she dead, is she at the animal control next on the list to PTS.   Funny,  I don't worry as much when I am gone and she is out.......  Joyce

#60
carol

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Joyce, wondering how Ms. Josie is doing?  Any pictures of her?




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